Sealing the deal: advancing mastitis prevention || Sceller l'affaire : avancée dans la prévention de la mammite

00:00:02: Welcome to the Heard Health podcast, a convenient place where you can stay up-to-date on the dairy and beef cattle industry in Canada.

00:00:09: With information shared from our technical services veterinarian team we aim to bring producers ranchers and veterinarians relevant insights on trends management practices and science that can be applied in the field.

00:00:21: this podcast is brought to by The Cattle Team at Bowringer Engelheim Animal Health Canada A leader In the animal health industry.

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00:00:57: Thank Please.

00:00:59: join Dr.

00:00:59: Simon Dufour and Dr.

00:01:01: Christian Hierhoff as we break down the real science behind internal t-ceilence, what works?

00:01:06: What doesn't?

00:01:07: And how to use them with confidence!

00:01:09: I'll let you introduce yourselves starting with Simon.

00:01:12: Hello Phil so yeah... Simon.

00:01:15: So i'm a professor at DeVette school inside ISI that University of Montreal.

00:01:20: Epidemiology That's where I got my specialization but actually Quebec, and a bit of time in British Columbia as well.

00:01:33: And then I accidentally fell into a PhD and started doing other stuff but i do a lot of research with Derrick Carroll.

00:01:40: Of course Masaitis is one my big thing that am working with.

00:01:45: Well thanks very much for joining me this morning Simo Christian.

00:01:49: next let you introduce yourself now.

00:01:53: Hi Phil,

00:01:54: Christian Hierhoff.

00:01:55: I graduated from University Dublin in two thousand fifteen and where then packed my bags up, moved to Eastern Ontario.

00:02:05: Where i've been practicing ever since... I live in Kempville, Ontario outside of Ottawa so a dairy practitioner And a farm animal vet but with special interest in bovine preventative medicine and herd health.

00:02:21: Great!

00:02:21: Well thanks again for joining us.

00:02:24: I'm leaving people wondering what the heck you guys are here for today.

00:02:28: So, the topic du jour or the topic of day is internal teat sealants in dairy cattle and so we're going to get right into it with some background maybe using internal teats sealant that dry off?

00:02:44: Maybe i'll start with you Simon.

00:02:46: The research is clear about mastitis risk when if set at stage a little bit about mastitus There's high risk periods for mastitis and intramamory infections at dry off and calving.

00:02:59: And I just wondered if you could explain a little bit about why that is the higher-risk period of dairy cows?

00:03:07: Well, yeah... At very beginning of the dry off period.

00:03:10: actually there are lot things going on.

00:03:13: we have the involution with the mammary gland.

00:03:17: We're not milking cows anymore!

00:03:21: twice a day or three times a day after and before each milking.

00:03:24: We often do that during the lactation, now we don't do it anymore.

00:03:28: sometimes cows are also pushing to.

00:03:31: another area is not always as let's say clean properly managed as the lactating cows.

00:03:38: well you know when you have limited resource thats one of part sometime gets a bit disregarded.

00:03:45: so yeah all sort things happening.

00:03:48: And well, historically we talked a lot about the plug or keratin plug that would form at the end of the teeth.

00:03:55: But nowadays our cows are really producing a lot even at drying off.

00:04:02: it's not uncommon to have more than fifty percent of cows and they're heard with produce more then twenty k at dry enough.

00:04:11: so all that together makes period very risky for mu and trem memory infection.

00:04:19: Of course, you have some cows also that are already infected when they reach dry off.

00:04:22: so now that's not the point.

00:04:24: we're really looking at these cows that were fine and would become infected during this first let's say ten or fourteen days And of course once we reached calving This is another area where there was a lot of risk stresses, you know we're gonna move the cow to a different place.

00:04:48: The diet will sometimes change too and some of these cows would start even leaking milk prior to the calving.

00:04:57: so then the titan is open again Again no disinfection unless they are going to reach.

00:05:03: you know calving after calving once were gonna start milking them.

00:05:06: So it's all sort issues that makes them more prone.

00:05:12: Mew infection immediately at the beginning of dry period and in this in the last few weeks Prior to calving.

00:05:19: And, of course if the first few days after Calving too where when the cow is sometime immunosuppressed

00:05:26: right.

00:05:26: so I'm just gonna.

00:05:29: I'm going go back to a number you said Just to clarify in case I misheard you.

00:05:32: So he said there was fifty five zero percent Of cows at dry off.

00:05:38: that would be above twenty kilos of production did

00:05:41: In many herds, yeah.

00:05:42: It really depends on the herds and management.

00:05:44: it's related also to the repro stuff because of course if you have bad repro in a herd You may keep the cows in lactation for longer time And the milk yield may drop.

00:05:56: but its not uncommon or modern.

00:05:59: They were heard that they had high proportion of cows above

00:06:05: .

00:06:05: That aligns with some Lactonet data I looked at from twenty twenty one.

00:06:09: We looked at cows that had a DHI test day within seven days of their dry off date and there is eighty two percent other cows above fifteen kilos.

00:06:17: Yeah,

00:06:22: so we know that there's high risk periods uh...at dry-off with in a few days at dry-of also coming into calving the next lactation for first couple weeks.

00:06:34: Now..there something when discussed leading up to this prayer for the podcast.

00:06:41: I think Simone was you that mentioned.

00:06:44: somebody had taught, there's only four ways to get mastitis?

00:06:47: Yeah yeah... You know them!

00:06:49: You

00:06:49: don't?!

00:06:51: I thought that you succeeded in your VED degree right?

00:06:55: The Four-Way Accounts Get Mastitis Right?

00:06:59: They did.

00:06:59: let me graduate eventually.

00:07:01: yes Yeah.

00:07:03: No, that's funny because it is one of our professors who asked me when I was a student sitting in the truck next to him going into a farm where we were called for a clinical mastitis case.

00:07:13: and he asks me, you know Simon Sir, but are there four ways a cow can get mastitis?

00:07:17: It was like super stressed out as a student how it works trying to figure out what it was.

00:07:23: And then he said no stop all your gibberish explanation.

00:07:32: front left, rear right.

00:07:34: Front-right these are a four way sick how I can get the status.

00:07:39: and when i heard that was like oh that's so stupid.

00:07:42: you know it says use this.

00:07:44: what am i doing?

00:07:45: That training anyway yeah why do have to do that?

00:07:48: but actually took me like maybe twenty years to figure out What he was trying to tell me And I think what he was saying To Tell Me I'll Have to Ask Him Eventually.

00:07:58: But Was the intramural infection, they can only be acquired through the teat canal.

00:08:04: I mean that's it.

00:08:05: we don't have blood and juice, mastitis you know or something like that.

00:08:09: That is way that cows will get mastitis It's true to the teet canal.

00:08:14: So uh... And thats' idea of these teats sealant If u could see this You know.

00:08:19: then The problem with salt its really easy.

00:08:24: Of course at a long time ago was all about We're gonna put an antibiotic.

00:08:30: So, the antibiotic is good because it's going to treat existing infection and prevent new intramural infections.

00:08:39: Because if we have a good concentration of antimicrobial in the memory gland then once that bug goes into it would be controlled.

00:08:49: Regarding treatment what happened was there were many improvements in other health across the area like Canada as well And so we don't have that many cows, that will reach

00:09:01: dry off

00:09:01: with an intramural infection and needs to be treated.

00:09:04: So that part is less maybe necessary.

00:09:08: Regarding prevention if you put in antimicrobial and you hope it's going to control the bug that are gonna go in?

00:09:18: It may fail because antimicrovolts aren't working against all type of bugs And also, the concentration of antimicrobial in the mammary gland is slowly reduced over time.

00:09:32: Many producers and vets would think it's probably a good concentration for the whole dry period because there was milk withdrawal after calving.

00:09:44: so there must be some antimicrobiol up to calving.

00:09:49: but the milk withdrawal is for residues.

00:09:54: It's not in concentration that are high enough to still work.

00:09:59: And actually, there is very few literature trying to appraise how long it worked.

00:10:04: but we suspect its more like ten days maybe fourteen after a dry period and antimicrobial

00:10:12: will work.

00:10:13: So if you were to put a teat sealant In eighty five percent of cowl all the way up to first milking after calving.

00:10:24: The fifteen, one-five percent of cowl for which we cannot find a teat sealant plug at calving?

00:10:32: We suspect that it was lost in last few days before calving.

00:10:36: so actually its longer coverage and duration than what would be seen with most antimicrobials.

00:10:45: I'll just clarify, maybe for the terminology you're using here.

00:10:49: For some of our listeners who aren't as familiar with a technical language we use anti-microbial is another word for antibiotic?

00:10:57: That's

00:10:57: an interesting point about how long antimicrobial intermemory therapy works because i've always asked that question myself and found it difficult to find an important part for producers to understand that it's not lasting all the way to calving in what we at least have studied a little bit, right?

00:11:21: So that can be helpful.

00:11:24: For... That knowledge could be helpful for producers To Understand The Differences and Why Teed Sealings Could Be Beneficial.

00:11:34: Yeah It's good to know.

00:11:38: the risk period at calving time definitely is not covered it all by the antibiotic.

00:11:45: we're putting in that up into a quarter, at dry off.

00:11:51: So then next question I'll bring out here as regarding uh...the cost side of mastitis.

00:11:57: so i realize there's been alot research and information about what are case an atypical case of mastitus costs on average.

00:12:06: Can both of you weigh in on what that number is, and also see more from the research side?

00:12:16: Christian I'll let you go first.

00:12:19: Yeah all my numbers come from mentors or research put it into.

00:12:25: so i have a number between six hundred dollars breaking it down for those producers that really like numbers and like to look at the economics of mastitis.

00:12:40: Often they don't believe in a nine hundred dollar range, then I say well six-hundred dollars probably not very either.

00:12:48: so we kind of land on the middle at seven.

00:12:50: fifty often uh...for our case of mastitus.

00:12:54: And yeah!

00:12:54: That's taken in lost milk drugs, death increased risk of cholera and venerary cause etc.

00:13:02: So yeah

00:13:03: And Simon

00:13:04: I'm exactly in the same range six hundred to nine hundred.

00:13:07: and actually a lot of the costs are rather due to milk withdrawal The meal that is lost this kind of them one of the most important thing.

00:13:17: But producers they have more in their head.

00:13:19: You know the cow?

00:13:20: That was at the counter died but it doesn't happen often.

00:13:24: So I'm right in the six hundred nine hundred dollar range, but actually one of my grad students that is super strong and economics.

00:13:32: He was challenging me last week saying you know what Simon?

00:13:36: I am a hundred percent sure it's higher than nine hundred dollars.

00:13:40: so he had to work on the bioeconomic simulation model awhile ago for dry cow treatment uh... And he said like i need to prove this to him But im a hundred person sure its more.

00:13:53: So maybe in a few months we'll have another answer on that.

00:13:58: Yeah, it seems as time goes on the numbers do change from period

00:14:04: to period.

00:14:05: It varies with price of milk and prices for drugs or resources are available at the farm everything.

00:14:11: Costs of labor?

00:14:12: As well!

00:14:16: We've landed this number between six hundred and nine hundred dollars then.

00:14:24: And let's get into the science now around internal teat silence in general.

00:14:31: Simone, can you share with us a little bit about Canadian research and other research that have been involved maybe?

00:14:40: Yeah I

00:14:41: guess Canada but also US some European country.

00:14:45: there was lot of research done on selective dry cow treatment If efficient.

00:14:53: to be effective for these protocol works, you need a teat sealant.

00:14:57: You cannot leave some cows untreated.

00:15:00: So sedative dry cow treatment is at drying off... ...you would try to identify the cows that have an active infection.

00:15:06: This one can get an antibiotic and The ones who are not infected.

00:15:12: we just need to prevent new infections.

00:15:14: so they will receive a teet sealant.

00:15:17: Sorry!

00:15:18: There's been research done in Canada US, Belgium to the Netherlands on these protocols.

00:15:28: We participated a lot into this kind of project but one thing that we did was conduct meta-analysis.

00:15:38: Meta analysis is when you're going try to assemble data from all sorts different researches done in countries and periods and try to put them together, and reanalyze the data.

00:15:53: To be able to determine more precisely how something works.

00:15:58: Yeah so it's actually research about research

00:16:02: Exactly!

00:16:03: And personally as a scientist I hate doing meta-analysis because It's so much work for one paper.

00:16:15: But when I need information on something, i love reading the analysis because it's So Much Data in One Paper right?

00:16:25: So it is really helpful to see if Something Is Working In Different Countries or Probably Different Context across different period of time too robust, you know?

00:16:40: You can be more confident in these kind of results.

00:16:45: So there was a number of meta-analyses that were done on internal teat sealant either comparing them to no treatment at drying off just to see if the thing works or to compare with an antibiotic.

00:17:00: so Teat Sealant versus Antibiotic to an antibiotic.

00:17:09: Would it be better than just the antibiotic alone?

00:17:11: So these different contexts, you know were used to see how teat sealant work and usually what we try to monitor.

00:17:21: of course... We're not trying to monitor cure of existing infection.

00:17:25: that's not the goal of a teat-sealant but how we can prevent stuff.

00:17:29: so.. Can we prevent new intramural infections during the dry period?

00:17:34: And can we prevent some clinical mastitis in early lactation?

00:17:38: Because a lot of the clinical mastitis in early lactation up to nine hundred and fifty days were actually from bugs that are acquired during the dry period.

00:17:51: The bug was acquired, it was sitting there silent... And eventually when the immune system is dropped a bit then it would be expressed as a clinical mastitus.

00:18:05: So many these could possibly prevented during the dry period.

00:18:11: So regarding some of the results about this meta-analysis, well if we just compare to no treatment you would prevent about fifty percent of all the intramural infection that will be acquired in a dry period.

00:18:24: If you use a TTSilent versus using nothing I mean We could imagine let's say an organic herd That is not Using any antibiotic Would start with a Ttsilent and roughly half Of the new infection would be prevented.

00:18:38: What the piece of work that I like also to look at is if i use a TZ instead Of an antibiotic because it you can Use That To Compare Which One Is The Most Efficient At Preventing New Intramural Infection.

00:18:52: And We're Discussing About How Long These Antibiotic Lasts in the Memory Gland.

00:18:57: and Actually, The Internal TZ is Superior.

00:19:01: It's Better Than Antibioid alone.

00:19:03: It Can prevent Roughly Twenty-Five Percent More new entombrary infections.

00:19:08: So it's probably because of that longer duration efficiency as compared to the antibiotic, which is more towards a very beginning of dry period.

00:19:21: So tzilent you can prevent lot of new entomer infection.

00:19:27: It probably works better at than an antibiotic alone.

00:19:31: but there also idea those people are already using antibiotics and our questioning should I add a tea sealant on top of that.

00:19:40: And this is another area where actually you can again, drop the number of new intramarine infection by roughly twenty-five percent if use an antibiotic and your add the tea seal to that antibiotic.

00:19:53: So thats all for these new intramerine infections.

00:19:56: It's always bit more... You know its concept not always visible because cow got infected but need test it or will see looking at somatic cell count in the next lactation.

00:20:09: The clinical mastitis, sometimes it's something that is a bit more obvious you know?

00:20:14: You have these clinical mastitists during the early lactation and we get similar number.

00:20:19: actually like fifty percent of clinical mastitus with...the one that was seen at the earlier lactations up to let us say hundred-hundred twenty days of the lactation would be prevented if used.

00:20:31: TZLN versus nothing percent, the clinical mastitis cases if you add a TZL to an antibiotic.

00:20:43: So there's still some benefit of adding a TzL into account that is already receiving antibody.

00:20:52: We also have... I'm going stop with Simo.

00:20:54: Can you just back up to that last statement?

00:20:57: Just so i'm clear on this.

00:20:58: Up to one hundred days of milk for clinical mastitus risk.

00:21:02: what did risk then is if you add an internal T.T.

00:21:06: sealant to an

00:21:24: antibiotic?

00:21:34: intramural infection, probably that the tizilent is better during a dry period at stopping bugs from entering the mammary gland as compared to the antibiotic.

00:21:45: That would try to control them once you know they were in the mammery gland and it could control then maybe more of the beginning of their dry periods.

00:21:53: we'd be better doing this than later on in the lactation with the teat sealant.

00:22:05: Yeah, it's similar to lactating cow mass status where we put a lot of effort into preventing it rather than trying people take away from this.

00:22:26: I

00:22:31: think the milking parlor turnover is going to be slowed down quite a lot too,

00:22:37: yeah

00:22:38: for sure.

00:22:41: and you used another term intramammary infection.

00:22:44: i just wanted to clarify that.

00:22:46: what does that mean specifically

00:22:48: because it's

00:22:48: not clinical mass status?

00:22:50: Yeah exactly.

00:22:51: so we Mastitis is a bit like an iceberg, you know there's a big part that is under the water and there are parts visible outside.

00:23:02: And actually... The largest part of mastitis Is what we call subclinical mastitis.

00:23:10: So actually bacteria will enter the mammary gland.

00:23:15: It will trigger reaction.

00:23:17: so it can have more Immune cells coming in the mammary gland and they can be measured using somatic cell.

00:23:22: So we're going to see these rises in Somatic Cell count.

00:23:25: so you have a DHI test, oh that cow is now front-read thousand Cells per ml or six hundred or something like that.

00:23:34: And what's going on?

00:23:36: You look at the cows.

00:23:37: there are absolutely no visible signs.

00:23:40: There isn't any swelling of the mamminary glands.

00:23:42: The milk is not abnormal At all Even for those who an automatic milking system, robots.

00:23:50: It's going to measure sometime the color of milk and all sort of parameters?

00:23:54: You don't see anything!

00:23:55: The only measurable thing is the somatic cell count.

00:23:58: so there IS information... There is... Masitis But it is subclinical.

00:24:04: We do not see clinical signs

00:24:07: Clinical meaning that the milk looks abnormal.

00:24:10: The milk will be abnormal If its a bit worse.

00:24:13: we can also have swelling in memory gland right away.

00:24:17: so it's red, it's swollen.

00:24:19: It's painful and even a bit.

00:24:22: the next grade in severity would be when the cow have systemic signs of fever.

00:24:28: uh its not eating anymore downer cow And eventually dead cows.

00:24:33: So that will be clinical mastitis.

00:24:36: In that case which is the tip of the iceberg Its less frequent but its consequences its consequence Of these entramarine section.

00:24:46: Yeah,

00:24:47: and it was until maybe the last fifteen years or so where we have what we call real-time somatic cell count information generated either in a parlor of robot.

00:25:01: We know more now that cows are constantly becoming infected and fighting off infection on their own and clearing the infection without anyone knowing about it right?

00:25:12: That nobody notices.

00:25:13: We had a few recent paper that were just published where we have the opportunity to sample each memory gland, four quarter every other week for group of five hundred cows and would follow them for year-and-a half or something like.

00:25:29: And you see a lot bugs coming in being eliminated by the cow.

00:25:36: no treatment anything.

00:25:38: sometimes small elevation of some excel count goes back.

00:25:42: because Well, the idea of these immune cells is to kill the bacteria.

00:25:46: And well one reason... I don't know Christian about you but one reason why i become a cow vet because they're so good at curing themselves that it makes me look good all the time right?

00:25:57: They are amazing animals and tough.

00:26:00: Yeah

00:26:00: yeah!

00:26:01: It's a tank in term of an immune

00:26:06: system.

00:26:07: There's many horses that would be infected with similar infection than cows and not live too many days for sure.

00:26:14: Yeah,

00:26:16: a little more fragile yeah?

00:26:18: The research you mentioned Simon is done on different management systems as well right this isn't yet research especially the meta-analysis where they're looking at multiple studies over a period of time.

00:26:32: so or freestyle environments, or bedded pack environments and so on.

00:26:41: Yeah there's a lot of different environment And actually one thing that is important to mention.

00:26:46: also There was some kind of emit That was entertained by manufacturer Of the milking system.

00:26:55: You should not use a teat sealant in automatic milking systems with robots.

00:27:01: totally untrue.

00:27:03: And actually in this study that we conducted on sedative dry cow treatment, where we use T-Tilent... We have always these two or three robotic herds are participating in the study and they don't have any issues with the T-tilent.

00:27:19: I think whenever there was a problem With the milking system The company was trying to get out of it by saying Are you using t-tilent?

00:27:29: Oh yes That's the problem.

00:27:31: But now it's been, that myth has been busted.

00:27:35: Yeah I would agree with you.

00:27:38: in practice i had several automatic milking system farms that remained on teat sealant and got along really well with no issues with the equipment.

00:27:47: And currently we have some research that Boringer is funding at The University of Guelph where its specific to Automatic Milking Systems trying to put together some scientific research then around how best to use it if you do have robotic milking systems.

00:28:06: So stay tuned, we'll hopefully have some answers on that front within the next year and a half.

00:28:12: But Christian?

00:28:13: You probably have some herds who are on AMS Automatic Milking System.

00:28:17: right with Tizia

00:28:19: Absolutely!

00:28:19: And they're becoming more popular robots especially for our Canadian farm size.

00:28:28: I've looked at some numbers and we can discuss the more in detail, but yeah.

00:28:31: I have fifty-five percent of my robotic curts In our practice are using tea.

00:28:36: silence with no concerns to the milking equipment.

00:28:40: Yeah,

00:28:40: i guess you would have heard about it if there was an issue.

00:28:45: Absolutely!

00:28:47: You'd hear about right away for sure.

00:28:50: There's also the organic herds that were mentioned a bit earlier Actually, the meta-analysis comparing internal titicillin alone versus antibiotic alone.

00:29:02: It was conducted because we were funded by organic dairy processors Because they wanted to have solutions that are not antibiotics To manage cow at dry off And well... We evaluated all these other treatments too you know?

00:29:20: essential oil and these kind of things that we sometimes hear in our practice.

00:29:25: But the only one that is worthy was internal tea sealant, it may look a bit more like conventional pharmaceutical option for organic dairy producers And some of them might be reluctant to use them but actually they are allowed.

00:29:48: a product that is completely inert.

00:29:50: It doesn't interact with the cows, with bugs or anything.

00:29:56: it's assault actually.

00:29:59: so thats really good option for organic dairy herds also.

00:30:03: The only thing we need to be careful and not only organic.

00:30:07: its conventional herd as well Is when administering the tea seeds you have to use clean proper methods.

00:30:18: That's something that is important.

00:30:19: if you're not going to use an antibiotic at the same time, because If You Use An Antibiotic At The Same Time Maybe... You Do It Not As Clean as You Should But The Antibioid Might Cover You For That?

00:30:31: But If You Are Using The Teach Sealant Alone You Have To Have Very Clean Methods.

00:30:37: I mean it isn't difficult.

00:30:38: a lot of every processor do this but sometimes we have that client who says maybe they are not here.

00:30:46: Attention to detail is definitely even that more important, if there isn't an antibiotic being put in.

00:30:53: I completely agree and more or more...I've been highlighted the cleanliness of that when things potentially go wrong with selective dry cow or tea-tailant use to go investigate how clean they're being, and it's something I emphasize a lot more because i think its very important for the success of using tea sealants in the program that you are trying implement.

00:31:22: A lot of robot farms also struggle with having an appropriate location to dry them off or be cleaned.

00:31:41: For some of the colors, you don't have a little pit beside or for one another.

00:31:45: Those ones are becoming more and more popular.

00:31:47: but they're useful in that situation where it's harder to do.

00:31:54: something.

00:31:54: I'm considering in barn design now is having an appropriate dry off area

00:32:06: Yeah, and other than that you know it's just basic training for the people who are going to do it.

00:32:12: And checking every now-and-then that the technique is still

00:32:17: good.

00:32:18: Where they store their products too like CleanSpot not next where poop can get there.

00:32:28: so yeah... That's

00:32:30: right!

00:32:32: So Simone, you've told a really nice story here about how the research shows decrease in both intramammary infection risk as well as clinical mastitis risks.

00:32:42: In the dry period but also early fresh periods zero to hundred days of milk.

00:32:48: But I bet there's listeners saying so what does it pay?

00:32:53: Does using teeth sealants pay because they're not cheap.

00:32:57: We just said at the very beginning a clinical mastitis is six hundred to nine hundred dollars.

00:33:03: Then you're going to save half of them, right?

00:33:06: So in one hundred cowherds basically if we get an average one twenty-to-twenty five cases of clinical mastitis over the full lactation ten to fifteen of them will occur at the Very Beginning Of The Lactation.

00:33:21: so If You Save Half Of Them It's Already Seven Eight Nine clinical mastitis case.

00:33:28: So multiply that by, well if we take into account my grad student that is saying it's way more than nine hundred dollars and you're going to make a round number with the thousand dollar... It's ten thousand dollars.

00:33:40: so just for that the math is relatively easy.

00:33:46: If

00:33:48: even go on the conservative side at the six hundred dollar end Now, six hundred times nine.

00:33:54: You're still looking at several thousand dollars?

00:33:56: Yeah

00:33:56: and right now we are not compiling the new intramural infection.

00:33:59: you remember it's a largest part of the iceberg.

00:34:02: if you prevent half them It is lot more things that are prevented than have to clinical mastitis.

00:34:08: The absolute number is

00:34:10: larger.

00:34:12: And these...it always more difficult to convince producer about this because its' not visible.

00:34:21: But the cow is, you know mixing with other ones like apparently healthy.

00:34:26: So it's a bit more complicated to show that to producers.

00:34:30: but the somatic cell count its directly related to the milk yield.

00:34:35: once every time the Somatic Cell Count double You get reduction in milk production.

00:34:41: so thats alot of cost too.

00:34:44: Its not cost for treatment.

00:34:45: your not necessarily calling the vet for that.

00:34:48: Your don't have put the cow aside and do stuff But the cow is producing less.

00:34:53: So at the end of day, it pays?

00:34:56: Yeah

00:34:57: and most well.

00:34:58: you always have to be specific.

00:35:00: You know we'll look each herd their situation And Christian I'm sure you probably will have some tools too To look for each herd with their own data.

00:35:10: What could expect but need to assess it In most herds would benefit.

00:35:17: Yeah, I've created a calculator on Excel kind of taking in all these data points and having the ranges.

00:35:25: And then it's a discussion with the farmers that like really looking at the economics like it inputs the cost of milk, the milk loss or the milk gain that you could get.

00:35:42: And yeah generally and very hard dependent.

00:35:44: but I found if had five percent more cases of fresh camasitis paid?

00:35:53: If new elevated LS-one percentage was thirty percent higher paid.

00:36:02: And many herds, if you actually have the data and can show them their surprise that they're higher than those minimum numbers so... The important part is that there are actual recording cases of fresh gamostitis.

00:36:18: quickly!

00:36:19: I had a farm where it wasn't- They were doing a lot no treats which i was fine with.

00:36:25: we know what kind of bacteria but they weren't recording those no treats in the computer.

00:36:31: So, they were really getting recorded as cases of clinical mastitis.

00:36:36: so that we improved that and then his percentage went to ten percent... Yeah

00:36:44: it's another reason why there is value in farmers recording these types of events so people like yourselves can look at data real-time information then for the client that's in front of you.

00:37:05: Talk to me just briefly about external teat sealant simul, I know there are some on the market and i know when my travels across the country there are producers that are using them.

00:37:15: it's not probably a very common thing to use but Yeah, I

00:37:25: think these came in just a bit before internal teaching started to become available or almost at the same time.

00:37:34: And there was a bit of research done on that too.

00:37:38: The idea is good!

00:37:40: In practice you cannot have them stay for very long.

00:37:46: So it would be perhaps more comparable to what we were mentioning about the antibiotic where you might provide some coverage at very beginning of dry period.

00:37:57: And depending on these external T-cellans, so I'm sure some of our audience have seen them it's like a teat

00:38:06: dip but its

00:38:07: gonna become kind of a latex style type of coverage in the teat end

00:38:14: Like a waxy coating

00:38:16: Exactly, and depending on the brand some of them would fall off quite quickly.

00:38:23: It depends on the application to how meticulous you are in applying them or covering really the whole thing or not.

00:38:32: so The main drawback is that they don't stay on for a very long period Of time In some cases depending On the cows and type of application And the type of external tea sealant.

00:38:43: it might be two days, when it's gone.

00:38:45: So you might have to reapply a number of time to cover the beginning let's say, starting in the two weeks from calving to cover that period if you want.

00:39:12: So it is not super convenient for dairy producers when they drag cow out sometime on a pen where we cannot lug them or something like that

00:39:24: Right.

00:39:24: so just connect the dots here.

00:39:25: then what your saying?

00:39:27: The internal tea sealant is superior with its lasting ability.

00:39:33: Once it s in right place It will stay there till next risk period at calving time

00:39:38: Exactly.

00:39:38: It's a no-brainer and we had some study at Universal Montreal, but there were other studies done elsewhere to try to quantify how many of these would stay in for an hour long?

00:39:50: But it is the majority of cow that will reach almost calving or the last few days before calving with the teat sealant And like I was saying earlier, I think eighty five percent of cows At first milking.

00:40:03: after calving The producers could see the teatsilent plug right in place and had to remove it.

00:40:10: In general here, I'm curious now is internal teach sealant for everybody?

00:40:15: What are the keys to success?

00:40:17: I guess what's getting out of this is... Is that for everyone or if not a key to success?

00:40:23: Oh!

00:40:24: I think everyone could use them.

00:40:28: Obviously you know i've looked at our herds.

00:40:32: we don't have every one no ones perfect to see more usage within our herds.

00:40:41: And yeah, there's a lot of different factors that go into the success of using them and I have some producers who aren't best at following protocols or being clean or having facilities for their success.

00:41:03: so they're little harder to convince to use.

00:41:09: And if I have gone and convinced used, there's a higher chance of it failing than blaming something else.

00:41:19: but absolutely for most like ninety-nine percent of herds they should be using...I think its rare define.

00:41:27: the herd that has less then five per cent case of fresh chemistitis aren't using tea sealants and so the economics pays for ninety nine percent of farms.

00:41:42: And I think if, If people part of the equation was could be improved then yeah.

00:41:53: therefore i think they're for everyone.

00:41:54: yes you were saying most cows would be good to use a teat ceiling in it's.

00:42:01: just on the management side, there are some farms where people that are involved may not be the best for creating success.

00:42:11: Yeah exactly and I think what's an important part is when Simon was talking about you know the difference between antimicrobial and the length to get there?

00:42:21: And then the lengths you get on the T-cell line... Is the T cell doing a better job protecting in that entire dry period where that antimicrobial might only be effective at treatment and preventing infection, maybe the first five to twelve days.

00:42:41: So it's absolutely not an entire dry period right?

00:42:46: And using both you get even more coverage.

00:42:51: but yeah I think if and microbials like for everyone.

00:42:58: And then I think you could easily implement tea silence for everyone as well, Calm?

00:43:04: Yeah,

00:43:05: I agree it's really about making sure the people that are going to do the application are meticulous.

00:43:12: That is one of the important things.

00:43:13: If i have doubts there Well either You Have To Do Some Good Training And Check The People Maintain That Level Of Cleanliness.

00:43:25: But that's my major issue, and I want to be sure it will be done in the clean met.

00:43:32: And training is a good way of achieving this.

00:43:35: So most people could benefit from the TZ-Lamp Of course!

00:43:40: There are other things where i'm more worried about when we go to selective dry cow treatment.

00:43:49: so you have an idea for an antibiotic.

00:43:53: A t-cellan could be good as well, perfect.

00:43:57: But we have a lot of pressure now within the industry to reduce the amount of antimicrobial that we're using.

00:44:03: this is to prevent resistance in bacteria

00:44:07: Of course

00:44:08: for the cows maybe bit but not for humans I guess because at the enthalpy The farmers the consumers all death.

00:44:17: you want make sure we're preventing resistance to antimicrobial, and one way to do it is reduce use of antimicrobiol.

00:44:25: So the selective dry cow treatment approach is something where you are going to use... when a cow is infected or identify that they were infected using antibiotic and teat sealant.

00:44:37: You could choose to use a teat-sealant as well there.

00:44:39: but if we determined that the cows weren't infected then you can use a Teat Sealant alone.

00:44:45: so usually have to rely on some kind testing or diagnostic to see if the cow is infected, maybe just a lacymatic cell count.

00:44:53: That's some kind of test that can bring you the information that you

00:44:56: need.".

00:44:57: Or sometimes there will be some milk culture analyzed at the farm... ...or in clinic and main diagnostic lab whatever.

00:45:06: So when I have people who also want to transition from treating everybody with antibiotics but now treating some cows some of the cow with just TZL, then it's... I was saying TZM.

00:45:24: Ninety-five percent is fine.

00:45:27: Selective dry cow therapy?

00:45:28: It's a bit less because those herds that have not already well managed other health and they've had a lot of cows reaching their dry period within trauma or reinfection.

00:45:42: at some point it might be too cumbersome to try and identify who is infected, or not when half of the cow are infected anyway.

00:45:51: So perhaps in these herds we need better prevention at other places before we switch to let's say a selective dry cow therapy.

00:46:03: You're saying that selective dry cows therapy isn't for everybody?

00:46:07: Yeah exactly!

00:46:09: I'm fine with it.

00:46:11: selective dry cow therapy, which needs titilin also for that.

00:46:16: That's a smaller proportion of herds but we may be.

00:46:19: you know eighty-five percent of the herds would still be good

00:46:26: And I think they go hand-in-hand, right?

00:46:32: So i'll often have someone say well...I'd like to try this selective dry care therapy that I've been hearing about.

00:46:39: Um and I understand the tea sealants are like..they kind of you know need to be used in that and then yeah but I am a lot more.

00:46:49: um yeah

00:46:52: target

00:46:54: criteria exactly that they need to hit.

00:46:57: uh to achieve

00:47:01: Yeah, and it's really important too that producers understand if they go to selective dry cow treatment.

00:47:07: so you're gonna treat some cows with antibiotics.

00:47:09: And other won't receive an antibiotic though the ones who don't recieve in antibiotics need an internal treatment.

00:47:17: I mean there was a lot of studies showing that if you use selective dry-cow treatments worse in term of other health.

00:47:32: So more new intramural infection, more clinical mastitis and the following lactation reduced male yield all these things will follow up so that ones are wants to reduce their use of antimicrobials or antibiotics.

00:47:45: And they say well dry period could be a time where I can do it.

00:47:50: It's really important that these cows that Are clean healthy?

00:47:58: Yeah, it's

00:48:00: fun.

00:48:01: I had a herd that and i'm sure all the vets listening have heard where I walked into her health.

00:48:08: then they said we're doing selective dry cow therapy And I said what?

00:48:13: how long you've been doing?

00:48:14: That oh couple months but But I haven't sold you any tea.

00:48:17: silence yeah, and they're like no We're not using teetowns, and we are not using any antimicrobials.

00:48:23: So it's not selective, you're not doing anyone.

00:48:27: There is a selection.

00:48:29: They selected to use Antibody.

00:48:31: Yeah and I mean we all have those hers that are... You have know the farmers from but..

00:48:41: so i'm gonna plug then-I'm going take this opportunity to plug.

00:48:44: The one piece of information That I like to deliver To producers across the country when Im invited to talks is please, if you're considering selective dry cow treatment get your veterinarian involved because there's ways that you can apply the program.

00:49:03: That's gonna set you up for way higher chance of success versus not having any input from the vet.

00:49:10: so just to wrap this part of the talk maybe with respect to internal tea sealant use and reducing antimicrobial use or antibiotic If we're going to go on a selective program of not putting antibiotic in all cows at dry off, it's essential to use an intersteroidal teat sealant.

00:49:33: To help with that success in the next lactation for decreased risk of clinical mastitis and intramarine infections.

00:49:44: so less mastitis equals

00:49:46: less antimicrobial use, antibiotic and less dry cow treatment used if you selectively dry off cows also reduces antibiotic use as well.

00:49:57: Exactly,

00:49:59: Simone there's some regulations being changed or have changed in Quebec since twenty nineteen I guess with respect to antimicrobial use.

00:50:10: how is that going?

00:50:10: And where do you see this been continued on here the next few years here in Quebec?

00:50:16: Yeah, in twenty

00:50:18: nineteen actually our new legislation was about not using some specific antibiotics that should be kept for human treatment.

00:50:29: So four treatments of severe and there's some antibiotics you know are used to treat a very severe infection humans right?

00:50:35: And which is not necessarily plan B. so the only one we can use.

00:50:42: these ones listed as important for humans not using them in animals, unless you could show with some evidence that this is the only treatment that would work.

00:50:56: So it's not like we cannot use them at all but its more complicated to use them and there are a lot of paperwork that goes with every time you need one.

00:51:05: There're

00:51:06: no restrictions.

00:51:08: Oh yeah so many restriction.

00:51:10: actually It went very, very low for this type of antimicrobial.

00:51:14: So if we want to put some names on them it's the safety offer.

00:51:21: so Spectromass LCDC If We Talk About Mastitis Or All The Exceed XNL Safety Cell Etc.

00:51:30: If You Look At The Injectables... So..We Cannot Use Them Anymore.

00:51:36: But The Government Is Also Very Proactive in Going Further.

00:51:42: So there's going to be some next steps coming, and what we heard a lot in the last few months was about targets.

00:51:51: In terms of amount of antimicrobial all of them together not just one that are critical for humans but targets in the amount of anti-microbial law that you're gonna able use.

00:52:03: And these targets will have a percentage.

00:52:07: I'm not sure they haven't figured out yet, but i think it's year twenty-twenty two or twenty one which is going to be the reference here and It's gonna.

00:52:15: Be a proportion of that.

00:52:17: so lower proportion Of course That people are Gonna have To achieve.

00:52:22: So we don't Have The exact Number Yet.

00:52:24: But Reducing Usage of antimicrobial Is in general?

00:52:31: Reducinus agent Antibiotics Is on the Rather

00:52:33: right now.

00:52:34: it's Going to happen In the coming Years.

00:52:36: I think the rest of rest of Canada is watching Quebec closely with how that's going.

00:52:40: And they've been, uh, Watching to the rest like European counterparts Like Netherlands and stuff as well

00:52:47: in our case.

00:52:48: That said it's a bit The thing.

00:52:49: government from Quebec Is watching Europe?

00:52:52: We're adopting A few years later what was implemented there and then It kind Of it's the same for the other provinces.

00:52:59: i guess

00:53:01: Other provinces are headed that way eventually Aswell based on the discussions I've had.

00:53:07: Yeah, I

00:53:07: would agree with Christian and time will tell of course what that picture is going to look like.

00:53:12: but one thing certain in life has changed.

00:53:17: there's always gonna be change And this another things are changing here for coming years from Canada.

00:53:23: But i have some discussion about dairy producers from Quebec Dairy Producers Association.

00:53:29: you know they're sitting at their board.

00:53:34: They are confident about how they're going to achieve that.

00:53:37: I mean, there's not stress out.

00:53:39: of course if you go in some individual farm and might be what is gonna happen?

00:53:44: Are we gonna do it at?

00:53:45: but their rep like no... We have the sedative dry cow treatment with internal T-cellan.

00:53:49: That's an approach Some stuff can done about clinical mastitis too Diarrhea respiratory problems in calves.

00:53:58: There a lot of gain that could be done as well.

00:54:01: So they are relatively confident in how to achieve that.

00:54:06: They're not too stressed out about it, I think the thing is going to achieve without affecting their health of animals and productivity.

00:54:17: And actually from an economic standpoint It might even become better.

00:54:21: You have be better at preventing diseases.

00:54:25: if you want use less antibiotics But preventing diseases is often cheaper than treating the sick animal.

00:54:34: This is a great segue to shamelessly plug or other, few of our other podcasts that we have on our platform here.

00:54:40: We had discussions with, I've had interviews with Hermann Barkama and Dr.

00:54:44: Herrmann Barkama, Dr.

00:54:45: Jan Sargent and Dr Frederick Tromblay.

00:54:48: They all had their inputter shared experiences about this antimicrobial use topic in antibiotic stewardship topic in general.

00:54:59: And so there's, for the listeners out there if you're curious to learn more.

00:55:03: Dr Frederick Tromblay shared.

00:55:05: we've got two podcasts with him where he shared their first-hand experience as a Beck Clinic and Quebec.

00:55:13: having lived through that twenty

00:55:15: nineteen

00:55:15: chains in antibiotic use let switch gears here to talk or speak.

00:55:25: share your approach to convincing a client to adopting this type of technology.

00:55:29: as far as internal teat sealants.

00:55:33: Yeah, I first want say that i'm really excited to be here because uh...I think this is the perfect layout for exactly how you know..i take the research thats done and apply it in farm situations.

00:55:48: so yeah....i think every clients have been different.

00:55:53: I think it helps as a veterinarian to have high emotional intelligence and understand how your farmers think, what drives them.

00:56:04: And everyone's goals are different.

00:56:05: so if you understand each farm's goal like conversations with them pick up on those goals that help drive the approach of getting research done and to them implementing it on farms.

00:56:21: So I have a bunch of clients that are very economical, uh...and data-driven those kind often go hand in hand.

00:56:30: i find so Those ones from vets.

00:56:33: we like data And we talk economics as well.

00:56:40: From my perspective they're easy if the data is clean good data you know, being more economical.

00:56:52: So those ones I find quite easy to have a conversation with and show them the benefits.

00:57:01: And then there's one that just pick it up because they feel like its right thing to do everyone else is doing or it's more moral driven.

00:57:11: Those aren't either to convince but often sometimes you've actually had a conversation with them.

00:57:22: And then there's some that they have very valuable cows or certain cows are super valuable, not all the producers I think care about their calves but there're more valuable cows in the herd than others and they do things to really protect them.

00:57:42: They don't want to lose animals.

00:57:45: So I think those three different mindsets, those ones can be quite easy.

00:57:52: To convince clients to adopt these details... The harder clients are the ones that aren't very data-driven and they don't want a lot of research because it's not applicable for me.

00:58:09: They're stubborn you know, or they use the words like I've always done it this way.

00:58:13: They're resistant to change et cetera.

00:58:16: and those ones... Yeah yeah i'm lucky on patient so you have to be very patient.

00:58:22: one of my mentors said that to me he's like You're lucky.

00:58:25: your patients can deal with some these more difficult clients.

00:58:28: Some are stubborn clients because I just slowly feed in wait for my opportunity.

00:58:38: This is where t-cellans could be a benefit.

00:58:41: You know, we talked about that year ago or two years ago and I have been successful sometimes but A lot of times i have not.

00:58:48: because you know in our clinic We have about fifty five percent usage of T-cellance.

00:58:53: And uh You know Our tie stalls are actually the worst.

00:58:58: and adopting it?

00:59:01: Actually find an interesting...I Find That They're.

00:59:05: They're adopting it as they go to either AMS or parlors.

00:59:09: You know, their moving on from Tystil and building a new facility.

00:59:13: And now there are like okay we can...and you know often build packs for dry cows.

00:59:19: Okay let's talk about teat sealants in selective dry cow therapy.

00:59:23: So that was

00:59:25: kind of the opportunity to review management.

00:59:29: Like I struggle the most in Thai cells with more contagious mastitis.

00:59:37: So a lot of my outer health talk and stuff is about routine prep, routine and milking routine equipment cleaning install management.

00:59:48: so i'll have more conversations there than talking.

00:59:53: And maybe i'm wrong to do that but you know they can only handle.

00:59:58: I like to come with topics and stay focused on a very specific topic.

01:00:03: If you start bringing four different topics that can get overwhelming, they don't adopt any of them.

01:00:10: so yeah...

01:00:12: And the dairy producers have all sorts other pressures.

01:00:15: sometimes there are issues which feel the work.

01:00:20: The dry period is not their priority at all.

01:00:22: So we need to wait for an opportunity like clinical mastitis outbreak five cases in a row and then you're like, good.

01:00:30: And unfortunately like other health on a lot of production mind isn't maybe on the top off their list right?

01:00:37: Of things but showing that there is like production benefits.

01:00:43: leaders are research as shown leader's gained or not our less leaders lost with using tea.

01:00:51: silence just does help, but yeah I would say utter health is not on the biggest because if they're at two hundred thousand somatic cell there's no incentive necessarily to get to a hundred.

01:01:05: and this stick you know it was that four-hundred.

01:01:08: so.

01:01:08: They are getting penalized and they aren't getting incentivize to be...so at two-hundert thousand well i have other fish to fry or things like that are important.

01:01:17: So That can be difficult too.

01:01:19: when we talk about utter health.

01:01:22: We get less movement, less change potentially with that because it's not top of mind.

01:01:28: Yeah so there is a perception from your client That its' not as important to them.

01:01:34: There are other things more important and they're happy With the results you getting currently.

01:01:38: So we just gonna keep doing what were doing for those reasons.

01:01:42: To summarize then Christian One of keys.

01:01:48: Yeah, keys to the approach of convincing clients who use internal teach sealant would be learning your client's drivers.

01:01:57: So understanding what drives them with respect things in general whether it is financial driver or emotion and best for animal maybe they want.

01:02:16: So understanding the driver helps you determine what your approach is going to be for that specific client and then waiting for their opportunity, being patient.

01:02:25: For those ones that aren't as easy to convince

01:02:29: them might they may not have a goal or my not having a drive where other health are exposed

01:02:33: but being patient in finding out

01:02:38: And unfortunately, it's usually there is a like an outbreak or catastrophe and that's unfortunate but its stepping stone to having those conversations for sure.

01:02:52: So how do you measure success then in these herds?

01:02:57: Did I understand?

01:02:59: fifty-five percent of your clients are fifty five percent of the cows on practice?

01:03:04: So, fifty-five percent of clients in your practice are using internal teeth sealants.

01:03:09: How do you measure success on these herds?

01:03:12: Yeah, data again is very extremely helpful especially when it comes to mastitis like Simon was saying that there's a lot of subclinical mastitis.

01:03:27: so seeing them with your eyes.

01:03:34: I think people in general, but farmers are very visual.

01:03:39: So again this goes back to.

01:03:41: it's a lot easier implement something and To get them to comply And continue to do if they physically see the difference.

01:03:50: so If They can at least See The numbers improving?

01:03:59: Where I found it tricky is in herds that maybe aren't on DHI or they have robots, but the data and robots are a lot harder to gather.

01:04:12: And for farms our missing data points like fresh cow cases of clinical mastitis even forgetting to put into transition health diseases etc... I'm gonna say it's difficult to measure compliance.

01:04:30: And like, I have all these aspirations and maybe we're as vets or... Maybe just me were very good at implementing something and same with farmers.

01:04:43: Implementing something- We know why for implementing it?

01:04:46: We want a reduced fresh cow mastitis cases and reduce elevated or reduced linear score one scores etc.. Then field work starts, and cappings happen.

01:05:01: And we forget to monitor that success in the compliance.

01:05:09: So looking at sales of T-Tilance... ...and then looking at DHI data specifically from before and after implementing a T-tilant program it would be like ways I do it but also often fail or forget to revisit them.

01:05:31: Yeah, for an industry standpoint having been in practice over twenty years way of things about how do we measure compliance and We have ways of doing it, but they're not easy at the practice level.

01:05:48: as far As how much?

01:05:49: We sold to this client And how much we sold that client versus How many cows?

01:05:53: I haven't so on.

01:05:54: And i think i'll give a plug here To go back.

01:05:56: if i've been in Quebec A few different times now In This new role i Have uh at Borenger Pat on the back to the folks in Quebec, because I think...I've been into several practices.

01:06:11: To see that they have much easier ways of measuring some of these metrics at the practice level in Quebec based on the software they're using.

01:06:20: so

01:06:21: yeah i seen it..i've seen the same software and Yeah!

01:06:23: It looks really intrigue.

01:06:25: Christian

01:06:25: you Have Some Really interesting information from your clinic That i Think You're willing to share here.

01:06:30: just about the uptake you've seen at various types of farms, management styles that have.

01:06:36: Do want to speak

01:06:36: about it?

01:06:38: So overall we're a fifty-five percent teal ceiling units with all our clients and I broke down into parlor AMS and tie stalls.

01:06:47: so parlors are at fifty nine percent AMS is at fifty five and then tie stall at forty seven percent.

01:06:57: I also believe some of that, like you know.

01:06:59: I've been trying to think about why the difference is a lot.

01:07:02: our tie sellers are smaller so they might have if over five percent fresh cow must say it's three cows maybe that calved in with new case of mastitis?

01:07:17: A lot of our parlors or larger farms starting get over one hundred, one hundred fifty two hundred.

01:07:24: They're collecting more data that they're visually seeing more cases.

01:07:30: I kind of use the same analysis as like, you know a tie-stall or a fifty cow farm That gets one DA.

01:07:36: Is that a problem?

01:07:37: Or not?

01:07:37: are they get one?

01:07:38: calf diarrhea is at a problem or not?

01:07:40: whereas You have a seven hundred fifty cowfarm Even if they had the same percentage da rate or a calf diarrhea rate they'd be doing multiple dease or multiple having multiple case of diarrhea month and it looks like a much bigger problem on a bigger farm.

01:07:57: And so I find there's more of drive from the larger farms because they're seeing more of that to get this down.

01:08:05: and yeah, I think again, ties stalls are looking at... Like i'm dealing with more contagious studies.

01:08:11: So we're working on preventing those with routine etc.

01:08:17: pre-dipping Whereas our parlors and AMS, you know they often have a pack.

01:08:28: They start to deal with less contagious mastitis And are dealing more environmental mastitis.

01:08:36: So that's I think in my head analyzing is what going on?

01:08:42: Which the one of the environmental bugs That can be prevented better with an internal T-cellet that would mainly be acquired during the drive period, and which result in technical miscellaneous in next lactation.

01:08:57: Was there any final thoughts either of you wanted to share with me here before we wrap this up?

01:09:03: Put a bow on us?

01:09:04: Just one important part is kind.

01:09:13: some of the other health stuff can be look daunting to kind of tackle within.

01:09:18: the preventative, herd health strategy is definitely rewarding.

01:09:24: To dive into it and I've gotten talking with Phil and going to see better at understanding myself Dairy Comp or DHI gives you a lot of data.

01:09:46: You really don't need all of it like taking some key points, understanding your clients just initiating that conversation and then coming back from the C, you're geared up.

01:10:00: how well is knowledge?

01:10:01: And then...and you could approach this topic.

01:10:04: so yeah I just encourage veterinarians and producers to ask questions get educated, and it's not that scary once you just learn a little bit about.

01:10:17: It is hard to implement the program as long as some of these key things we've been talking today like cleanliness and benefits because once farmers can understand the benefits its easier convince them to do this

01:10:35: process anyway right?

01:10:37: You start then adjust You adjust as you go along.

01:10:42: And the thing is that it's not irreversible, so you could give it a try.

01:10:47: and I mean if after few months you're like yeah no... That's fine too but i think its worth trying.

01:10:53: It's not something where you change the barn style when your stuck with it.

01:10:58: After that

01:10:59: There definitely value to what you just said there Christian.

01:11:02: So thanks for sharing that.

01:11:03: Yeah But sort of wrap up.

01:11:05: then We touched on importance of the details, as far as potentially having a place that you're able to do your dry off procedures so that it... You have good chance of staying clean while doing the procedure.

01:11:26: It's very clear from research side things that its internal teeth salient use does decrease risk for both intramarine infection and clinical mastitis in first hundred days.

01:11:38: And so because of that, it pays.

01:11:42: There's very... there'd be a large number of farms that would not be able to achieve Christian criteria here.

01:11:49: less than five percent fresh cows with clinical mastitis or subclinical mastitis?

01:11:55: Did I understand that right, Christian?

01:11:58: Subclinical or clinic- It

01:11:59: just fresh cow mastitis.

01:12:00: Fresh

01:12:01: cow mastitus yeah.

01:12:04: and There's a myth out there about automatic milking systems where I think the myth has been debunked, but stay tuned here with research we're involved in.

01:12:18: We are going to have more answers hopefully another year and half.

01:12:21: But many automated milking system farms that use internal teat sealant successfully without having issues.

01:12:32: Each farm needs its own approach.

01:12:34: If you're going to apply selective dry cow therapy or are interested in learning about it, please talk to your vet first.

01:12:54: It's legal for them to use internal seed sealants as part of their dry off strategy.

01:12:59: And so that may be an opportunity, some you're listening maybe talk about how it could be used on your farm in this way?

01:13:09: Both

01:13:09: Simo

01:13:09: and Christian I'm totally stoked with the podcast went today!

01:13:16: and thoughts that you put together to prepare for this podcast segment.

01:13:21: And thanks very much for your time today, it's been an absolute pleasure!

01:13:24: Thank

01:13:25: You!

01:13:25: Well a thing too you feel?

01:13:27: Same same to you... It has been great collaboration.

01:13:30: The information shared in the podcast does not replace the advice of a veterinarian.

01:13:34: We encourage you reach out to your veterinarians For more information about topics discussed.

01:13:39: Bullringer Engelheim cannot recommend use products outside Canadian product approved labeling.

01:13:45: Find more episodes of this podcast on Spotify, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts from.

01:13:51: Thanks again for listening!